Intelligent comments from Haideh, not from Tres.

With the successful late industrialization cases I have a couple of comments to make: That it initially happened in countries that for whatever reasons were in a better position to accumulate capital in the first place. African countries were not among them, Roy, because they did not have control over their capital generating resources. Had they had, their excess population would have worked in their favour.Anyway, Roy, I agree with you, and the fact that Africa was not in a position to be challenged the way China was with the embargo. ISI, learning, technology and the embargo, Carolyn, I think worked hand in hand there - the 70s jokes about the Chinese village steel industry... ISI is a powerful tool, I understood from reading Amsden tonight, but so is IMF and the WB, that can somehow have serious adverse effect on the process of accumulation of capital to be invested in industrial sector in the first place. Germany in the European context was an example of late industrialization, but the process of accumulation of capital did not face a powerful inhibitory/delaying challenge. My questions, therefore is how late is a late industrialization? And I am thinking loud here, industrialization that happened during the earlier formative phases of the monopoly capital had faced less obstacles than the late comers.However, there are some encouraging news from Africa, Roy, in that the small-countries-working-with-each-other type of investments in industrial sector, especially, are successful there. I think Africa is picking up in that we have many Chinese, third world self help and NAM kind of investments there, in small scales that are manageable by indigenous work force. It is true that productive trade and investment activities between Africa and the first world, which could have potentially lead to accumulation of capital in the twentieth century, is almost non-existent, but what we call the emerging small regional powers are very much active there, small manageable loans with small rate of interest and and of course favorable tariffs, ISI and measures.I absolutely enjoyed our get-together yesterday, thank you everybody and thank you Helena.